Posted by rocknroll on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 10:01 AM:
Is this a scandal,a bump in the road,willful lawbreaking or just plain old government incompetence? Apparently warning signs were surfacing around 2005 during Bush's last term. During the bush/obama transition period the new administration was alerted to the problems. Obama made several speeches during his 2007 campaign,while president elect and after inauguration talking about the very issues coming to light then and continuing now. I understand he authorized about a $30 billion budget increase for the VA. Typical government response,throw some money at it. Lists of people to blame and really no defense for any of them. Everyone is talking outrage and they are mad as hell yet not one person has lost their job except for one guy whose retirement was moved up a couple of months. Samo-samo.
I know there are several vets posting here and I'd like to hear their opinions.I'm not one if them. I won only one lottery in my life and it was the first draft lottery during the Vietnam War. Number 330 will always have a special meaning. Yes,kids,there used to be a draft when old men that thought war was a good thing couldn't convince young men that visiting strange lands,meeting interesting people then killing them was a patriotic duty.
If the VA,a government run single payer health program can't take care of less than 10% of our citizens what makes anyone think another bloated government run healthcare system can take care of 100%?
Replies (168)
Rock, it's all part of the plan. Government control of everything and anything. The VA should be one of the top priorities of the federal government, not the ACA or food stamps. The government is cutting into tri-care to fund the ACA. And yet people want more government...sad.
-- Posted by BonScott on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 10:38 AM
I tried the VA in 1970 and didn't have satisfactory results so I never went back. I know some vets who feel as I do and some that praise the VA. Things are no different now than they were then except we have more exposure to things now than then (i.e. 24 hr news). I can't honestly remember when any head of the VA in my adult lifetime hasn't been criticized. Hopefully things will get better.
-- Posted by left turn on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 11:00 AM
Lefty,I have several friends that give mixed reviews mostly from the Poplar Bluff facility. The small stuff was taken care of but the bad reviews were for more serious issues. Lots of passing the buck and more than not ending up going elsewhere.
-- Posted by rocknroll on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 11:31 AM
Hope barrack keeps his cable bill paid so he knows what is going on in the world.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 4:07 PM
He's worn that excuse out,rick. Guess he watches FOX cause no one else has paid much attention to the VA story. He needs to review some of his 2007/08/09 speeches. But hey,maybe the dog ate them.
-- Posted by rocknroll on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 5:56 PM
The VA current problems will be seen in Obamacare. That is guaranteed.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 5:58 PM
The VA current problems will be seen in Obamacare. That is guaranteed. -- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 5:58 PM
Apples to apples comparison would be Obamacare v. Medicare, which we hear very little complaints about.
Anything that is "free" is abused; even if the free benefits are earned by serving one's country.
-- Posted by CSIP2016 on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 6:32 PM
Anything that is "free" is abused; even if the free benefits are earned by serving one's country. -- Posted by maelstrom on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 6:32 PM
I believe there will be many "free" users of Obamacare and medicaid, no?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 7:04 PM
Medicare is not free...
-- Posted by BonScott on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 7:16 PM
Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 5:58 PM
Regret: Pinkycare will be worst than the VA problems....worst yet the taxpayers will have to bail it out after the November elections are over.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 7:45 PM
"...incompetence and deception at the Department of Veterans Affairs."
Perhaps there were actual problems to be identified and resolved.
Consoder that the VA medical system has over 8 million enrollees.
That the majority of their facilities date back to the 50's and many are located in the north and east.
The system is composed of of a combination of direct hire and contract providers, and is not a "single payer" system.
Many of the enrollees are also eligible for Medicare or Medicaid, or have private insurance.
The percentage of military members in the past 12 years with severe injuries is significantly higher that in the 70's through 90's.
No information has been provided on the wait list individuals in Arizona. I have seen nothing that says what they died of and how old they were. There is a distict difference between "dying" while on a list, and dying "because" you were on a list. If there was a life threatening condition, one would think that the person would have been taken to the nearest emergency room.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 8:47 PM
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 9:19 PM
So Obama shouldn't be mad?
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 9:25 PM
Common, What they died of or why they died are two different things.
Some may think being old lessens the focus of cause.
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, May 20, 2014, at 10:52 PM
"What they died of or why they died..."
My point exactly. If an individual was on a waiting list for a non-emergency knee operation, and died of a heart attack, why would he become one of the 40 veterans that "died while waiting?"
Per the above link...
"Now we know the report of at least 40 U.S. veterans dying waiting for appointments at the Phoenix Veterans Affairs Health Care system is only the tip of the iceberg."
It seems that the writer does not know or care what they died of nor how old they were. If one of them died in a car accident, do they go on the "list?"
When zealots like Sean Hannity go on the air and solicit VA "horror stories" they will get responses and cherry-pick any with "dramatic" impact, and ignore the 8 million or so VA enrollees that are receiving adequate treatment.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 6:58 AM
Clearly there should be full and impartial investigation of possible complaints, but I object to jumping to the conclusion that every single thing the VA does is 'evil."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 7:02 AM
The best way to solve the VA problem is issue all veterans a full medical card and with this card they can go to any doctor or hospital they wish for treatment. Shut down all the VA Hospitals nationwide the VA has been a disaster for a long time not properly treating our veterans, they hire the cheapest doctors they can find nurses too. The problem started way before Obama took office it has been growing for years within the Veterans Administration. By issuing the medical card the veteran instead of traveling to St Louis, Marion or Poplar Bluff they would be able to go to any of the two hospitals right here in Cape Girardeau and also doctors as well.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 7:23 AM
When zealots like Sean Hannity go on the air and solicit VA "horror stories" -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 6:58 AM
And the rest of the national press that is reporting on this are "zealots" as well? Covering for this administration is a habit. People get moved and promoted for doing illegal and illicit things in the Obama administration. It's way past time to investigate things in this bunch that pale in comparison to Richard Nixon.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 7:29 AM
"The problem started way before [President] Obama took office..."
Ask the SO group how that is in any way possible.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 8:34 AM
Ask the SO group how that is in any way possible. -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 8:34 AM
No different than when the deficit was $400 billion under Bush (and declining quickly) when Pelosi and Reid took over congress. Yes, there was debt under Bush and fast declining until democrats took control of congress.
And then of course Obama has doubled the debt. Trillions a year, right? Four $1 trillion dollars a year in a row for Obama.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 8:44 AM
Wow, what enlightenment. I was sure that the entire world was 100% perfect before President Obama took office.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 8:55 AM
Wow, what enlightenment. I was sure that the entire world was 100% perfect before President Obama took office. -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 8:55 AM
You should be nice and be respectful common. You are bullying me.
If you read my post I pointed out that there was debt/deficit under Bush. Not 100% perfect.
But the other facts simply suck for die-hard Obama supporters. Sorry, can't help you with that. Your self-admissive fear of "enlightenment" - putting light on the subject - is real. Not looking good for your prez these days. It's tough, I know.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 9:02 AM
"My point exactly. If an individual was on a waiting list for a non-emergency knee operation, and died of a heart attack, why would he become one of the 40 veterans that "died while waiting?"
The scandal is not that they were on the waiting list or died on the waiting list. The scandal is that there were two waiting lists: the "official" list and the "unofficial" list. Those applying for services were put on the "unofficial" list while waiting for services. When the wait came within the prescribed timeframe, they were put on the "official list".
Only the "official" was used for reporting purposes, and thus the VA was able to claim that all of their patients were being seen within the prescribed timeframe, and there were no "undue" delays in service. The reality was quite different. If the person died while on the "unofficial" list, the VA simply pretended they had never been on a list at all. They were, in essence, forgotten to death.
In the old days, it was called "cooking the books".
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 9:57 AM
Other VA locations than Arizona are coming forward and reporting similar "cooking of the books". This is indicative of an unofficial policy, rather than simply a localized situation.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 10:12 AM
In compliance with direction delivered by Mr. Miller, I accept your dissenting outlook, and respect your right to hold whatever opinion you desire to fixate upon.
However, my opinion and the positions I have expressed are based on my realistic assessment of the totality of America's experiences, involvements and interaction at home and abroad, in the first 13.4% of this century. What is unrealistic and naive is to insist that the entire nation was irrevocably transformed for the worse the day that President Obama took office. It is my feeling that he has done as good a job as was possible under the circumstances. There is no question that he has made mistakes and done some things wrong, but there are more that he has done right.
Take the VA for example. I am close to certain that about 95% of the personnel and facilities in the VA today are the same as they were six years ago. I also have an extremely close friend that works with the construction of new VA facilities, at a fairly high level, whose assessment I trust, and he has pointed out that the VA system does work better now than it did six years ago. And I am fairly certain that it was better six years ago, than it was in 2000. And this is further in consideration of the fact that there are significantly more wounded and seriously injured veterans today than there were in the 80's and 90's.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 10:16 AM
"The scandal is not that they were on the waiting list or died...
Try explaining that to conservatives and their talk show hosts. There is no question that a "book cooking" practice is totally wrong and those responsible should be prosecuted.
Keep in mind also that the amount of funds provide to operate the VA is up to Congress, and I am personally certain that neither General Shinseki, nor President Obama gave instruction to "cook the books to make me look good."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 10:23 AM
"And this is further in consideration of the fact that there are significantly more wounded and seriously injured veterans today than there were in the 80's and 90's."
How do you derive that "fact". World War II, Korean War, and Vietnam Veterans outnumbered Gulf War, Afghanistan War, and Iraqi veterans by a great number and have been treated at those facilities for decades. Their numbers have been decreasing significantly over the past decade, but there were still significant numbers of World War II, Korean War, and Vietnam War veterans alive and seeking treatment in the 1980s and 1990s.
Do you have data to support your numbers claim?
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 10:26 AM
"Try explaining that to conservatives and their talk show hosts."
I haven't listened to the talk show hosts, but I take it you have. Your post, however, argued about the existing of waiting lists, and ignored the scandals.
RickŪ correctly identified the scandal. Yours is the first post I noted that cited wait times as being the issue while ignoring the cooking of the books. As far as I can tell, your post did not attempt to correct any prior misconception stated, but simply sought to defend the wait times while ignoring the crux of the scandal. When called upon it, you faulted "conservatives" and "talk show hosts", without citing any evidence they were reporting it wrong.
rocknroll opened the thread merely asking veterans about their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the services.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 10:34 AM
By the way, I'm a peace-time veteran, but have never used the VA services, so I cannot say good or bad about them. Like most of the prior posters, I've known veterans who have both praised and condemned them, they having received treatment both at Poplar Bluff and at Marion.
I've made no attempt to catalogue their complaints as to which hospital is considered better, nor which departments within them are praised or cursed.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 10:37 AM
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 10:59 AM
"...without citing any evidence they were reporting it wrong."
There remains a difference between "reporting it wrong" and reporting it for "political mileage."
Per Senator Cruz
"I am deeply concerned about reports regarding the Department of Veterans Affairs, and those responsible for mistreating our veterans must be held accountable...."
This "mistreatment" of veterans seems not to be aimed at "book-cooking." That may not be shocking or outrageous enough.
In any case as veterans turn 65 they are also eligible for Medicare. In my case, even as a Vietnam veteran, I have had no need nor occasion to utilize the VA as Medicare and Tricare have provided excellent coverage.
In any case not all veterans are equally eligible for VA care. As I understand the system, there are, 8 categories, with 100% disabled veterans having the highest priority, going down to any vet on a space available basis.
All Vietnam and earlier vets should be able to also turn to Medicare. As for the original question, those that I know, most are satisfied with the care they are getting or have received, some have complaints.
But as I mentioned above, there is no justification for any type of waiting list manipulation.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 11:42 AM
"... I know another "witch-hunt"...except ..."
No, the issue of providing bogus waiting lists should be investigated, resolved and those creating the "lists" should be fired. That's not a "witch hunt."
Trying to claim that General Shinseki or President Obama personally ordered individuals to "cook the books to make us look good" is a "witch hunt."
The difference should be fairly obvious to most of us.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 11:58 AM
"This "mistreatment" of veterans seems not to be aimed at "book-cooking." That may not be shocking or outrageous enough."
How do you derive that from what he said? They were "mistreated" in that they were subjected to waits longer than VA internal policy permitted, and the books were cooked to hide that. Several veterans may have died preventable deaths during those waits, according to the CNN report. I think that qualifies as "mistreatment" under many definitions.
The link I posted shows the largest group of those served to be Vietnam Veterans. The number of Gulf War and War on Terror veterans is smaller, and the number served by the VA is probably smaller than that.
In the 1980s, most Korean War veterans would not yet have been eligible for Medicare. So, I am still waiting for something besides your guesswork to support your claim that "there are significantly more wounded and seriously injured veterans today than there were in the 80's and 90's."
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:03 PM
"Trying to claim that General Shinseki or President Obama personally ordered individuals to "cook the books to make us look good" is a "witch hunt"."
I'm not aware that anyone has made that claim. There are indications, however, that information on the waiting lists have been reported "up the chain" long ago, which suggests that General Shinseki and/or Mr. Obama didn't receive the reports, ignored the reports, or knew about the reports and permitted the cooking of the books.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:09 PM
The Captain of the ship does not have to personally have ordered the ship to sail onto the rocks to be held accountable for the error in the course.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:10 PM
"IMHO , it is going to explode with the Iraq vets who have just returned and the troops in Afghanistan who have yet to return."
8.8 million soldiers went to Vietnam. Of those, some 7.4 million are still alive.
An additional 2.4 million went to war in the Gulf War (1990-1991), of which nearly all are still with us.
1.5 million have been sent to war in either theatre of the War on Terror, nearly all of whom are still with us.
The infoplease link I posted lists some 153,000 non-fatal woundings in Vietnam and a further 467 non-fatal woundings in the Gulf War, compared with 48,000 for the Global War on Terror.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:28 PM
"... information on the waiting lists have been reported "up the chain" long ago..."
Information about waiting lists, yes, it has or was. That however, is not the same as solving the problem by creating a "new, shorter list" which was not "...reported 'up the chain' long ago."
I have seen nothing to that effect.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:30 PM
"The Obama administration received clear notice more than five years ago that VA medical facilities were reporting inaccurate waiting times and experiencing scheduling failures that threatened to deny veterans timely health care -- problems that have turned into a growing scandal.
"Veterans Affairs officials warned the Obama-Biden transition team in the weeks after the 2008 presidential election that the department shouldn't trust the wait times that its facilities were reporting."
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:32 PM
..."there are significantly more wounded and seriously injured veterans today than there were [wounded] in the 80's and 90's."
My "unclear" point was that there were no numbers of wounded being added in the 80's and 90's. At the same time WW II and Korean War vets were moving to Medicare.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:37 PM
"In particular, the 2008 transition report referred to a VA inspector general recommendation to test the accuracy of reported waiting times.
"Such tests, the report noted, could prompt action if results reveal "questionable differences" between the dates shown in medical records and dates in the Veterans Health Administration's scheduling system. It's unclear whether that recommendation was adopted because VA officials have not responded to request for comment."
And so a recommendations was made by the VA internally, and the most obvious response would have been for the VA to fix the problem which could very likely be related to Congressional underfunding of the entire VA. As in...
VETERANS GROUPS URGE CONGRESS TO STRENGTHEN VA BUDGET
AUTHORS OF ANNUAL 'INDEPENDENT BUDGET' LOOK TO CONGRESS TO CORRECT FUNDING DEFICIENCIES
March 04, 2014
"Four of the nation's leading veterans service organizations -- AMVETS, Disabled American Veterans, Paralyzed Veterans of America, and Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. -- are expressing their concerns with the President's Budget for Fiscal Year 2015, which proposes $68.4 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs. The groups, who coauthor of The Independent Budget (IB), a comprehensive budget and policy document, now look to Congress to correct the funding deficiencies and to reconsider the recommendations outlined in the IB -- which calls for $72.9 billion to sufficiently meet veterans' health care and benefits needs."
Think that may have had something to do with "waiting lists?"
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:52 PM
"The Captain of the ship does not have to..."
Does that apply to all of our past Presidents that failed to fix the VA problem?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 12:55 PM
" there were no numbers of wounded being added in the 80's and 90's."
Which was not what you said, not at all.
"Does that apply to all of our past Presidents that failed to fix the VA problem?"
None of them are at the helm right now.
"And so a recommendations was made by the VA internally, and the most obvious response would have been for the VA to fix the problem which could very likely be related to Congressional underfunding of the entire VA."
None of which addresses the point that the President did not, in fact, just learn about the issue when he saw it on the news.
The Veterans' advocacy groups always request more funding. But, if the wait times were being hidden, particularly if they were being hidden from Congress, would that not suggest that the Congress may have perceived there to be no problem when, in fact, there was a large one? No doubt the VA, based on the flawed data, was reporting to Congress that there were no significant problems with veterans waiting to receive assistance.
You are now trying to point the finger at Congress for not fixing a problem which the VA was reporting as being non-existent?
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 1:48 PM
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 1:54 PM
"...did not, in fact, just learn about the issue when he saw it on the news."
He knew about a problem with waiting lists. I don't believe he knew about "fake lists." And since he gets routine information on the VA through the chain of command, they would be unlikely to report "book-cooking."
They are still two different issues.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 1:59 PM
"....all on Congress again..."
Seems that Congress was the guilty party until Speaker Boehner took over, then they became innocent. Did he really give his "checkbook" to the President?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:02 PM
"He knew about a problem with waiting lists. I don't believe he knew about "fake lists." And since he gets routine information on the VA through the chain of command, they would be unlikely to report "book-cooking"."
The report says he was told not to believe the data coming from the VA on waiting lists. That pretty much says they told him they were cooking the books, and they knew it all the way up to the top.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:05 PM
"That pretty much says they told him they were cooking the books..."
That "...pretty much..." doesn't say that, except maybe in someone's 20-20 hindsight.
Do you think he said, "That's great! Keep on 'cooking?'"
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:12 PM
"Putting all of the blame on one party only for everything is not the answer..."
I agree completely. Try convincing the SO group.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:14 PM
"Do you think he said, "That's great! Keep on 'cooking?'"
I don't pretend to know what he said or thought. I believe that is your department.
"That "...pretty much..." doesn't say that..."
"Veterans Affairs officials warned the Obama-Biden transition team in the weeks after the 2008 presidential election that the department shouldn't trust the wait times that its facilities were reporting.
"This is not only a data integrity issue in which [Veterans Health Administration] reports unreliable performance data; it affects quality of care by delaying -- and potentially denying -- deserving veterans timely care," the officials wrote...
"In particular, the 2008 transition report referred to a VA inspector general recommendation to test the accuracy of reported waiting times...
"Audits of outpatient scheduling and patient waiting times completed since 2005 have identified noncompliance with the policies and procedures for scheduling, inaccurate reporting of patient waiting times and errors in [electronic waiting lists]," the briefing papers state...
"The briefing materials do not reveal any concerns about outright fraud in manipulating waiting times, but they make repeated references in summarizing past audits and reviews about data accuracy."
It says it much more clearly than your "fact" that "there are significantly more wounded and seriously injured veterans today than there were in the 80's and 90's" says "... there were no numbers of wounded being added in the 80's and 90's. At the same time WW II and Korean War vets were moving to Medicare."
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:21 PM
"I agree completely. Try convincing the SO group."
I've not tried to blame anybody. You're the one who brought up "conservatives" and "talk show hosts", and then faulted the Congress, and dredged up " all of our past Presidents that failed to fix the VA problem" and, of course, the oft-referenced "SO group".
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:25 PM
"The briefing materials do not reveal any concerns about outright fraud in manipulating waiting times..."
My point exactly.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:25 PM
"... but they make repeated references in summarizing past audits and reviews about data accuracy."
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:30 PM
"Putting all of the blame on one party only for everything is not the answer..." I agree completely. Try convincing the SO group. -- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:14 PM
Try convincing your president:
"Then-Senator Barack Obama, November 12, 2007: "After seven years of an Administration that has stretched our military to the breaking point, ignored deplorable conditions at some VA hospitals, and neglected the planning and preparation necessary to care for our returning heroes, America's veterans deserve a President who will fight for them not just when it's easy or convenient, but every hour of every day for the next four years."
I guess it's ok for him to blame president Bush but not OK to blame himself? Right.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 2:41 PM
I am 100% convinced that Dug didn't pay much attention to politics prior to 2009. -- Posted by Dratgud on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 3:02 PM
I am 100% convinced that you were wrong in that statement. Again. Sorry to point this out Jay/Ike/Spaniard/dugtard/dratgud and I hope it doesn't offend you.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 3:11 PM
Dug's obsession with this "Jay" poster isn't helpful. -- Posted by Dratgud on Wed, May 21, 2014, at 4:40 PM
Obsession? From the guy who posts as "duglies", "duggielies" and "dugtard"?
I think the one with the "obsession" is clearly defined. Physician heal thyself.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 8:10 AM
miccheck: How do you actually believe the debt is falling quickly Washington is still spending like drunken sailors, why do you think they cannot control these 23 Federal Agencies because the government has got way to large and when that happens you lose control and it is hard to have accountability. To much is spent on government time to streamline it reduce the payrolls and get it down there where you can manage it and we will cease a lot of these problems and save billions of dollars on top of that. Big Government is not the answer to this Nation needs trim it down and we will have a better stronger economy and take the choke hold off of these businesses and lift some of the unbelievable regulations and taxes that have been imposed upon them the past six years under this administration.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 8:28 AM
"The Department of Veterans Affairs Management Accountability Act of 2014."
"What would it do?
"The legislation targets members of the Senior Executive Service -- the nation's highest-ranking civilian federal employees -- who work for the VA and are found to be involved in cases of mismanagement, delayed or insufficient medical care or backlogs. If passed, the bill would give the secretary the power to "remove any individual from the Senior Executive Service if the Secretary determines the performance of the individual warrants such removal."
"Federal civil service rules make it incredibly difficult to outright fire a career civil servant. This bill essentially gives the secretary the ultimate firing authority, similar to what a CEO might enjoy at a large company.
"If the secretary wants to punish someone, they could fire them, or demote them out of the SES and into the lower General Schedule pay schedule. The secretary then would have 30 days to inform the House and Senate veterans committees of any such decision.
"Is the bill in direct response to the current allegations?
"Kind of. It's not a direct response to recent reports of botched record-keeping and long wait times at a VA facility at Phoenix and nearly two dozen facilities across the country. But it does address a long-standing criticism of the VA: that employees tied to cases of mismanagement or preventable veteran deaths often go unpunished and in some cases receive promotions or five-figure bonuses shortly after cases of wrongdoing are exposed at a VA facility.
"During a hearing on the bill in March, Miller credited "hundreds of thousands of dedicated VA employees" and that the legislation "is in no way intended to disparage these hard-working individuals. In fact, my bill is meant to help them as well as the department as a whole."
"But Miller noted that several cases of preventable deaths at VA facilities have been tied to mismanagement -- at VA facilities in Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Columbia, S.C., August, Ga., and elsewhere. The VA's inspector general has linked VA patient care problems to widespread mismanagement, but nonpartisan investigations by the Government Accountability Office have found that often there is no link between a person's bonus and good performance.
"In his own investigation, Miller found at least 20 "preventable veteran deaths" in the VA system. The probe also determined that more than 50 veterans were seriously harmed by delays in endoscopies and other procedures. The majority of the deaths occurred in 2010 and 2011, according to his report.
"Miller and his colleagues are also angry that dozens of requests for information from the VA have gone unanswered -- a list that is carefully documented on the committee's Web site.
"What does Obama think of the bill?
"He hasn't said definitively one way or the other. On Monday, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said that the White House "shares Congress's concerns about making sure that there is accountability and effectiveness at the VA, and we're working to address the problems that have surfaced. We'll look closely at the bill."
"Carney said that Obama has asked Shinseki "to make sure that the VA is maximizing its use of existing authorities to ensure accountability so that all the tools already available under the law to the VA to hold people accountable are being used even as we assess this bill."
"Anyone else have issues with this bill?
"Yes. The Senior Executives Association, which represents members of the Senior Executive Service, has raised concerns about the legislation. As The Federal Eye's Josh Hicks wrote this week, the group is worried that the bill would violate the due process rights of VA employees; needlessly inject partisan politics into an otherwise nonpartisan workforce; and run the risk of having a VA secretary react too quickly and fire someone "to dampen the ensuing firestorm."
"So what is the Senior Executive Service?
"Established during the Carter administration, the SES comprises roughly 7,000 senior career federal employees across the federal government. They're the top career managers who stay behind as political appointees come and go every few years. To use an Army comparison, if secretaries and assistant secretaries are like the generals and lieutenant generals, then SES employees are more like brigadier generals, majors and captains."
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 9:08 AM
"The deficit last year was about $.5 trillion. That's a huge fall, no?"
Last years' deficit was $719 billion. This years' is predicted to be about $660 billion.
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 9:14 AM
The lowering of the budget deficit discussion reminds me of something I heard back in the 80's.
There has been a "Letup in the Letdown". Still headed for the lower regions in a handbasket, but the crash will kill us slower I suppose.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 9:22 AM
The VA has been a mess for years, one of the main reasons it is one giant government bureaucracy that got to big with bureaucrats just like the IRS and many other government agencies. The right don't know what the left is doing when bureaucracy balloons like this. This is one of the main problems today the people have allowed government to grow to a level that it is almost impossible to manage any more. The best solution for this is issue all of our veterans a medical card that would allow them access to any clinic, hospital or doctor in this Nation so they can receive the proper medical care they so deserve. Shut down all of the VA hospitals and release all the doctor and other staff and send them on their way out the door this would stream line the Veterans Administration and we would be able to manage it better instead of this complete mess that we currently have had for years.
-- Posted by swampeastmissouri on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 12:42 PM
"Secretary of Veterans Affairs (VA) Eric Shinseki is a man of honor, who ought to be politically bullet proof. A four-star general, two combat tours in Vietnam, a former wartime chairman of the Joint Chiefs and land mine survivor, his military career is the definition of high-integrity leadership. But he is not bullet proof. Here is why.
"General Shinseki has been head of the VA since 2008, more than five years. Between April 2009 and today, there have been ten semi-annual Inspector General's (IG) reports done on the VA. Another is now pending. Each is a damning six- month compilation. In the very first report, Shinseki learned of 102 individual IG reports on major VA problems. In his second, he learned of 133 new problems. In his third 120, fourth 143, fifth 140, sixth 161, seventh 140, eighth 159, ninth 164, tenth 185. So, the number of problems and investigations on his watch has been rising, not falling.
"What did five years of mounting investigations reveal? A lot. The first consolidated semi-annual IG report -- five years ago -- reported to the general that "An OIG audit determined the Veterans Health Administration (VHA) lacks an effective method to track and report unused appointments, particularly those canceled in advance and those never scheduled." So, within his first six months, the general knew VHA had major scheduling, appointment allocation, and wait time problems. What is the current investigation about? VHA wait times alleged to have been the proximate cause of veteran deaths. Ironically, the cover of that first IG report? An Arlington headstone.
"What did the second report find? Among other system failures, "noncompliance" across the VA with critical "directives." "VHA's failure to comply on such a large scale suggested fundamental defects in organizational structure." Again, the process by which the VA managed all appointments and information technology was found deeply flawed. Wrote the IG, of the system for veterans' medical appointments: "Oversight ... was ineffective," thus "VA expended over $70 million" but "does not have a deployable [appointments system]." Worse, there was "a fundamental inability on the part of [the VA] to properly manage [important] IT projects internally."
"Nor could the VA leadership, including the general, have missed this point. In March of 2009, there was a media bombshell: The multi-million dollar project "to develop a core computer application to schedule patient appointments at hospitals run by the VA has all but collapsed, and senior executives are worried about the repercussions it could cause on the Hill ... according to an internal memo." So, there it was: Leadership knew the system was failing veterans.
"The third IG report? "Many veterans do not receive timely medical examinations because VA medical facilities do not commit sufficient medical resources to them" and "program weaknesses persist." The fourth and fifth amplified. In the sixth, mishandling of medical systems in "16 regional offices," and a return to the failed appointments system: Specifically, the VA "made little interim progress in one key area--ensuring contact with patients during the time interval between acceptance into a mental health residential rehabilitation program and the start of the program." In other words, appointments for mental health were a continuing problem. Suicides were rising.
"Seven? The general's VA "lacked financial and budgetary controls," had "ineffective oversight and stewardship of VA funds." More Arlington headstones. Eight? "At 5 years after separation, 3.7 percent of [veterans were] experiencing ... homelessness," and "were more likely to be diagnosed with mental disorders ..." Nine? Hundreds more arrests, more systemic problems. Ten? More non-compliance, negligence and criminal issues.
"So, here comes the five-year head of VA to testify before Congress. And what does he say? He says that learning of mismanagement now "makes him mad as hell." He fires a senior administrator. President Obama's staff says he has "complete confidence," but is "outraged" by failures at his VA. Really?
"After five years of systemic disconnect and program failure, after breaking trust with nearly 65 million patriotic and ailing American veterans, the head of the VA is "mad as hell?" The president is "outraged?" Really? I am sorry. My father died in a VA hospital. Too many of my relatives are at Arlington to accept this.
"Responsibility for systemic failure goes to the top. The president has too much pride or too little shame to accept responsibility for another systemic failure, let alone to resign. But General Shinseki, you are a man of honor -- still. Is it not a little late to get "mad as hell," in view of the last five years and all those IG reports? Why must so many good men and women suffer so much, after defending us with their lives, limbs, hearts and minds? Where is honor at the VA? Surely we can do better. We must."
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 3:49 PM
"The president has too much pride or too little shame to accept responsibility for another systemic failure, let alone to resign."
We have to understand, "Little Barry" was an only child.... we simply cannot fault him for acting like a spoiled "Only Child".
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 7:59 PM
"Where is honor at the VA?"
Surely Mr. Charles is fully aware that during General Shinseki's watch (to the end of 2012) the number of veteran patients has increased by 12% to 5.6 million, the total number of enrollees has increased by 12% to 8.8 million, the number of outpatient visits has increased by 24% to 84 million, and the number of inpatient admissions has increased by 10% to over 700 thousand.
That's over 1.6 million outpatient visits per week, and that was almost 2 years ago.
Please feel free to disregard any and all increases in workload and improvements that have been made.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 8:43 PM
Please feel free to disregard any and all increases in workload and improvements that have been made. -- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 8:43 PM
Who has been pushing time and time again the wisdom of Barack Obama trying to suddenly insure 30 million additional Americans? And then telling us that if Obamacare passed how it wouldn't affect the quality or quantity of health care for the rest of us?
Now we're just making excuses for poor performance once again. Just asking us - for the 100th time - please cut the Obama administration some slack.
Gee, wouldn't it be nice if we could just have it both ways? Doesn't work Common.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 9:02 PM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 8:43 PM
common: A head of any department or organization number one duty is to make forward plans of that department or organization to keep it running efficiently now and into the future. General Shinseki as head of the VA failed in that duty and should step down so someone can be put in that position to help the vets with their healthcare and well being.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Thu, May 22, 2014, at 10:04 PM
"...excuses for poor performance..."
"...failed in that duty..."
As you're probably aware, General Shinseki's sole duty is not to manage waiting lists at a Phoenix facility. Try considering what has been done rather than focusing and emphasizing what is being worked on.
Recently from General Shinseki...
"In January 2009, I said that we would move quickly to get as much done as possible in whatever time we had together. Since then and with your advice and assistance, the support of Veteran service organizations, and the leadership of the President, we have achieved some significant results:
* VA's budget has grown by $50 billion, thanks to the President's leadership and unwavering commitment to Veterans;
* More than 2 million additional Veterans have enrolled in VA healthcare;
* We have opened over 60 new community-based outpatient clinics--an average of, at least, one new clinic every month for the past five years. Our total today stands at 825 CBOCs nationwide. We have also opened our first hospital in 17 years--a new, state-of-the-art facility in Las Vegas;
* In FY 2013, VA funded the construction of 15 new state cemeteries, three new state Veterans homes [Radcliff, KY; Salem, OR; and Montgomery, TN], and a 40-bed addition in Richmond, Virginia.
* We currently have 12 new homes and a total of 63 projects that are on the priority-one list for VA funding--and 105 additional projects, including 15 new homes, that have been approved for funding but are awaiting the states' matching funds.
* More than 16,800 caregivers have been trained to care for our most seriously injured post-9/11 Veterans;
* More than a million Veteran and family member students have received educational assistance and vocational training through VA;
* An average of 115,000 Veterans a year have been laid to rest in our national cemeteries--124,000 last fiscal year. Nearly 90 percent of all Veterans now have a burial option within 75 miles of home;
* Veterans' homelessness fell by 24 percent between 2010 and 2013, and we expect another reduction when this year's point-in-time count--the PIT count--is tallied up;
* Last fiscal year, 74,000 Veteran home-mortgage holders who defaulted on their home loans were kept from foreclosure and eviction because we worked out best arrangements with the appropriate financial institutions. We weren't able to save everyone, but with a variety of tools we were able to rapidly rehouse many and provide supportive services to Veterans' families. Our work here continues, and we are still focused on ending the rescue phase of homelessness in 2015;
* Finally, we fielded a new, automated claims system at all 56 VA regional offices--VBMS, Veterans Benefits Management System. We are now transitioning out of paper and into digital processing. Today, 80 percent of our inventory is already electronic, and over 214,000 claims have been completed through VBMS.
And furthermore...
"April 16, 2014 Independent 2013 Survey Shows Veterans Highly Satisfied with VA Care Higher rating than Private-Sector Hospitals on Average
WASHINGTON -- The American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI), an independent customer service survey, ranks the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) customer satisfaction among Veteran patients among the best in the nation and equal to or better than ratings for private sector hospitals. The 2013 ACSI report assessed satisfaction among Veterans who have recently been patients of VA's Veterans Health Administration (VHA) inpatient and outpatient services. ACSI is the nation's only cross-industry measure of customer satisfaction, providing benchmarking between the public and private sectors.
In 2013, the overall ACSI satisfaction index for VA was 84 for inpatient care and 82 for outpatient care, which compares favorably with the U.S. hospital industry (scores of 80 and 83, respectively). Since 2004, the ACSI survey has consistently shown that Veterans give VA hospitals and clinics a higher customer satisfaction score, on average, than patients give private sector hospitals. These overall scores are based on specific feedback on customer expectations, perceived value and quality, responsiveness to customer complaints, and customer loyalty. One signature finding for 2013 is the continuing high degree of loyalty to VA among Veterans, with a score of 93 percent favorable. This score has remained high (above 90 percent) for the past ten years."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 7:18 AM
The VA situation is bad aka "poor performance". You try and minimize it by saying it's just at an Arizona facility which is blatantly untrue. Then you try and excuse this based on the increase in the number of patients.
You ignored my main point - you've been telling us that insuring 30 million additional Americans will actually improve our health care in both quality and availability. Then blame the VA situation on an increase in patients.
This story, and your excuses, confirm that your Obamacare statements couldn't be more wrong. Many of us knew that insuring 30 million additional would hurt health care for the rest.
Your cut and paste comments are from the very guy who is being blamed for these failures and is biased. Would you take Richard Nixon's comments on watergate at face value. Doubtful. Why do you take Shinseki's at face value? Is it the "(D)" factor?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 7:28 AM
It's a wonder common wasn't "fracked" in 'nam.
-- Posted by rocknroll on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 7:35 AM
Rock,
What makes you think he wasn't.... have you read the above post?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 8:02 AM
Rock,
What makes you think he wasn't.... have you read the above post?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 8:02 AM
I understand the Senate Dems want a few weeks to study a VA reform bill. It's a 3 page bill. Wouldn't it have been great if obamacare and it's 2000 pages would have been studied?
There was a proposal to let vets go elsewhere for care perhaps through a voucher system. How about a voucher to go to Gitmo? There is about a 100 person medical staff for 150 detainees. Better care for terrorists than the veterans sent to fight them.
-- Posted by rocknroll on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 8:11 AM
Rock,
It is the politically correct way of doing things. I read some time back where it is more likely that you will get an organ transplant if you are on death row than you will as a responsible citizen where you have to wait in line.
We live in "enlightened" times.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 8:19 AM
"...blame the VA situation on an increase in patients."
Nothing is being "blamed" on the increase in patients. The increase is a fact of life, which coupled with scarce resources effects the length of waiting list.
The problem with lists is that some facilities were attempting to hide facts, which there is no excuse for.
My point was that General Shinseki's job is more than waiting lists. Which of his accomplishments do you disagree with, and where is there evidence that he is wrong?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 8:23 AM
The increase is a fact of life, which coupled with scarce resources effects the length of waiting list -- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 8:23 AM
And an increase in patients under Obamacare, couple with scarce resources will have an effect on the length of waiting lists. Something we were told, by you, that wouldn't happen.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 8:27 AM
In my entire lifetime I have never waited 81 days, or whatever the wait time is at the VA, to get an appointment with a doctor out in the real world, away from government help. Even when I could no longer put up with the pain in my knee, from the time I called for an appointment to the time I was walking around with a knee replacement, was well under 81 days and that was with one of the area's top surgeons who is a very busy man.
Yesterday while I was driving, I heard on some radio station that the VA has had the largest by percentage budget increases under Obama than any other government entity. Is this true? And if so, what are they doing with the money? They surely have not improved service to our veterans.
And I believe it was only day before yesterday that I thought I read Common's post trying to blame the Republican lead House for the problems. Am I correct on that Common?
God help America in the years to come under Obamacare!
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 8:43 AM
"And an increase in patients..."
Why is it that you some believe that the ACA has something to do with the VA?
"...trying to blame the Republican lead House for the problems."
The House has it in its power to fund the VA to whatever level they feel appropriate. I do not "blame" them if they feel that a tax break for a million dollar vacation home has a higher priority than treating veterans.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 9:41 AM
Increase the funding now and improve performance. It's a proven method to get better results. Just look at education and how much better the outcome where spending is highest.
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 9:51 AM
"...the Congress fault..."
"The House passed its version of the defense measure earlier in the day on Thursday, with a 325-98 vote. That measure would continue the blockade on closing the prison facility, with House lawmakers turning back an amendment to lay the groundwork for shuttering it by the end of 2016."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 11:48 AM
Ran across this by leadershipstudy.com:
1) 31% of CEOs get fired for managing change badly,
2) 28% for not paying attention to customers,
3) 27% for putting up with poor performers,
4) 23% for not recognising reality, and
5) 22% for too much talk and too little action.
These are reasons private sector CEO's lose their jobs. Seems the VA General could find a spot in all those catagories. Come to think about it,obama should lose his job,too.
-- Posted by rocknroll on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 12:00 PM
Rick, CSM is correct, congress would never approve the money to close Gitmo. So you can't blame Obama for that. Nice try, though.
-- Posted by left turn on Fri, May 23, 2014, at 12:12 PM
The War on America's Military Veterans, Waged with SWAT Teams, Surveillance and Neglect
By John W. Whitehead
The Rutherford Institute
May 24, 2014
Just in time for Memorial Day, we're once again being treated to a generous serving of praise and grandstanding by politicians and corporations eager to go on record as being supportive of our veterans. Patriotic platitudes aside, however, America has done a deplorable job of caring for her veterans. We erect monuments for those who die while serving in the military, yet for those who return home, there's little honor to be found.
The plight of veterans today is deplorable, with large numbers of them impoverished, unemployed, traumatized mentally and physically, struggling with depression, thoughts of suicide, and marital stress, homeless (a third of all homeless Americans are veterans), subjected to sub-par treatment at clinics and hospitals, and left to molder while their paperwork piles up within Veterans Administration (VA) offices.
While President Obama has now declared that he "will not stand" for the mistreatment of veterans under his watch, the time for words is long past. As Slate political correspondent John Dickerson observed, these inexcusable delays represent "a failure of one of the most basic transactions government is supposed to perform: keeping a promise to those who were asked to protect our very form of government."
Then again, as I detail in my book A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State, the government has been breaking its promises to the American people for a long time now, starting with its most sacred covenant to uphold and defend the Constitution. Yet if the government won't abide by its commitment to respect our constitutional rights to be free from government surveillance and censorship, if it completely tramples on our right to due process and fair hearings, and routinely denies us protection from roadside strip searches and militarized police, why should anyone expect the government to treat our nation's veterans with respect and dignity?
Indeed, in recent years, military servicemen and women--many of whom are decorated--have found themselves increasingly targeted for surveillance, censorship, threatened with incarceration or involuntary commitment, labeled as extremists and/or mentally ill, and stripped of their Second Amendment rights, all for daring to voice their concerns about the alarming state of our union and the erosion of our freedoms.
For example, a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) program dubbed Operation Vigilant Eagle tracks military veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, and characterizes them as extremists and potential domestic terrorist threats because they may be "disgruntled, disillusioned or suffering from the psychological effects of war."
Unfortunately, as we've seen in recent years, the problem with depicting veterans as potential enemy combatants is that any encounter with a military veteran can escalate very quickly into an explosive and deadly situation--at least, on the part of law enforcement.
For example, Jose Guerena, a Marine who served in two tours in Iraq, was killed in 2011 after an Arizona SWAT team kicked open the door of his home during a mistaken drug raid and opened fire. Apart from his military background, Guerena had had no prior criminal record, and the police found nothing illegal in his home.
John Edward Chesney, a 62-year-old Vietnam veteran, was killed by a SWAT team allegedly responding to a call that the Army veteran was standing in his apartment window waving what looked like a semi-automatic rifle. SWAT officers fired 12 rounds into Chesney's apartment window. It turned out that the gun Chesney reportedly pointed was a "realistic-looking mock assault rifle."
Ramon Hooks, a 25-year-old Iraq war veteran, was using an air rifle gun for target practice outside when a Homeland Security Agent, allegedly house shopping in the area, reported him as an active shooter. Hooks was arrested, his air rifle pellets and toy gun confiscated, and charges filed against him for "criminal mischief."
Although no toy guns were involved in Brandon Raub's case, his fact scenario is even more chilling, given that he was targeted for exercising his First Amendment rights on Facebook. The 26-year-old decorated Marine actually found himself interrogated by government agents about his views on government corruption, arrested with no warning, labeled mentally ill for subscribing to so-called "conspiratorial" views about the government, detained against his will in a psych ward for standing by his views, and isolated from his family, friends and attorneys.
On August 16, 2012, a swarm of local police, Secret Service and FBI agents handcuffed and transported Raub to police headquarters, then to a medical center, where he was held against his will due to alleged concerns that his Facebook posts were "terrorist in nature." Meanwhile, in a kangaroo court hearing that turned a deaf ear to Raub's explanations about the fact that his Facebook posts were being read out of context, Raub was sentenced to up to 30 days' further confinement in a psychiatric ward. Thankfully, The Rutherford Institute came to Raub's assistance and brought about his release. Even so, within days of Raub being seized and forcibly held in a VA psych ward, news reports started surfacing of other veterans having similar experiences.
A federal judge actually dismissed Raub's lawsuit challenging the government's "Operation Vigilant Eagle" campaign and its increasing view of veterans as potential domestic terrorists as "far-fetched." Yet what may sound far-fetched to the courts is a grim reality to Americans who are daily being targeted for daring to exercise their constitutional rights to speak their minds, criticize the government, and defend themselves and their families against over-reaching government surveillance and heavy-handed police tactics.
It's ironic, isn't it, that we raise our young people to believe that it is their patriotic duty to defend freedom abroad by serving in the military, then when they return home, bruised and battle-scarred and suddenly serious about defending their freedoms at home, we treat them like terrorists. Then again, perhaps it's not so much ironic as it is tragic and pathetic--a sad tribute, indeed, to those willing to put their lives on the line.
-- Posted by FreedomFadingFast on Sat, May 24, 2014, at 10:25 AM
"...how many second chances should this [President] get ?"
I would suggest that you may be confusing the concept of "getting a second chance" after a child steals a treat from a candy store, with operating the US Government.
Did President Roosevelt get a "second chance" after Pearl Harbor, or the Battle of the Bulge?
Did President Truman get a "second chance" after firing General MacArthur, or after "losing China?"
Did President Reagan get a "second chance" after more than 200 Marines died in Lebanon, or after Lt. Col. North committed crimes?
Did President Clinton get a "second chance" after The WTC bombing or the attack on the USS Cole?
Did President Bush get a "second chance" after the first 1000 soldiers were killed in Iraq, or the first 4000, or after spending a trillion dollars on an unnecessary conflict?
I'd be careful on what you consider the "first chance."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 7:46 PM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 7:46 PM
Common: Don't believe any of those presidents tried to cover up those things that you pointed out, sometimes the cover up is worst then the crime was. Sure hope that Mrs. O doesn't cancel the cable subscription, I'd hate for Pres. Pinky to not know what's going on here and overseas.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 8:41 PM
Sure hope that Mrs. O doesn't cancel the cable subscription, I'd hate for Pres. Pinky to not know what's going on here and overseas.
-- Posted by semo471 on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 8:41 PM
Maybe he needs a Platinum subscription... I don't think Basic Service is getting the information to him quickly enough for him to make a decision.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 9:02 PM
"...sometimes the cover up is worst..."
Do you think possibly that the "cover up" is entirely or partly in the mind of the "beholder."
For example, what do you think was "covered up" in the behghazi aftermath. It was identified as a terrorist act the next day.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 9:40 PM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 9:40 PM
Common: Let's see what the select committee comes up with, saying it was a terrorist act doesn't get into the heart of the matter....let's see who knew what and when.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 9:46 PM
"...sometimes the cover up is worst..."
Do you think possibly that the "cover up" is entirely or partly in the mind of the "beholder."
For example, what do you think was "covered up" in the Benghazi aftermath. It was identified as a terrorist act the next day.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 9:47 PM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 9:40 PM
Common: Let's see what the select committee comes up with, saying it was a terrorist act doesn't get into the heart of the matter....let's see who knew what and when.-- Posted by semo471 on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 9:46 PM
Common: I can do that also.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 9:55 PM
"...what the select committee comes up with..."
...will be exactly nothing that was not known all along. Can you understand what a "witch hunt" is.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 10:12 PM
"Identified as a terrorist attack the next day."
It was suspected a terrorist attack the next day by those outside the Administration while a spontaneous attack due to a video was bolstered by all on watch at the time.
Common keeps on keeping on supporting anything the party puts out there. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 10:17 PM
It was described as "...a terrorist attack the next day..." on 12 September by the President. Were you not aware of that? Appparently Mitt Romney was not either.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 10:44 PM
DT
I think he deserved no more chances than the 4 dead in Benghazi got.
Someone sent this today, I understand it has been around for a year and it appears that someone may have flowered it up a bit, but supposed to be essentially true.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 10:57 PM
It was described as "...a terrorist attack the next day..." on 12 September by the President. Were you not aware of that? Appparently Mitt Romney was not either.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 10:44 PM
So why did it take you 2 days to spin the president's speech into an acknowledgement of a terrorist attack while still supporting the idea of a spontaneous riot as the media did? I suspect you refused to be aware.
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, May 25, 2014, at 11:21 PM
The speculative sequence of events put forth by Col. Handley is another example of Monday morning "quarterbacking." Unfortunately the facts don't support his scenario. For example, he writes of a "mob" attacking the facility, as if there were a single attack on a single structure when in fact there were three separate attacks on two separate buildings, and Woods and Doherty were killed by a mortar round from over a mile away.
Another factor that he overlooks is that by about 2:30 the embassy in Tripoli recommended to Secretary Clinton that all personnel in Benghazi be immediately evacuated.
Col. Handley's timeline is conjecture based on an overly optimistic theory. Available reinforcements were sent from Tripoli, and the others being marshaled in Spain, Croatia and in the states could not have reached Benghazi in time.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 7:31 AM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 7:31 AM
Common,
Just curious, if Colonial Handley is so incompetent, how did he become a Colonel?
Did you outrank him while in the military?
Or did you just naturally know more than those who outranked you?
Just curious.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 7:50 AM
"...if Colonial Handley is so incompetent..."
Who said anything about him being "incompetent?"
I simple pointed out that the descriptions in his analysis is inconsistent with what was conveyed by those that were actually there or in Tripoli.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 10:24 AM
"...all issues should be looked at from every angle ..."
And there is on problem with that, except that you cannot make up your own "angles" that have no basis in fact.
The Colonel wanted a scenario where airpower could have made a difference, so he created one.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 11:39 AM
"....somebody knows the truth."
How is it that you don't believe those that were there? What "truth" are you expecting? Or is that you're enjoying the "witch hunt?"
As mentioned previously, there are amazing similarities with the original "witch hunts."
You may remember when "Cotton Issa" conducted the first prosecutions. He took the accused "witch" and strapped her to the "dunking chair" and put her under water for a period of time.
If she was alive when they brought her back up, it was because she used her "witchly" powers, so the dunked her again. If she drowned while under water, it proved she was not a "witch" and was innocent.
I'd say that's exactly what the republicans want to do, they'll keep dunking the "witch" until they hopefully get the result they want.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 3:12 PM
DT,
If I remember correctly, those that have first hand knowledge were muzzled by the administration and barred from speaking about it.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 4:41 PM
Or is that you're enjoying the "witch hunt?"
Common: call it whatever you want to, the truth will finally come out.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 6:54 PM
HWWT, who said the administration muzzled them?
-- Posted by left turn on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 6:55 PM
Wow, Common is caught up in this witch hunt thing.
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 7:16 PM
"...the truth will finally come out."
How will you recognize it?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 7:18 PM
How will you recognize it?-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 7:18 PM
common: It will probably be the opposite of what the administration said what happen.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Mon, May 26, 2014, at 9:13 PM
"...be the opposite of what the administration said ..."
Why does it not surprise me that some seem to believe that it was American terrorists that killed a Libyan Ambassador because of a video denigrating Jesus and Christianity.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 6:17 AM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 6:17 AM
Common: A good try to deflect the truth.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 9:01 AM
Why does it not surprise me that some seem to believe that it was American terrorists that killed a Libyan Ambassador because of a video denigrating Jesus and Christianity.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 6:17 AM
I have never heard that excuse for what happened at Benghazi... did you just make that up out of your fertile "excuse making for Obama" mind, or what?
If it is not just a figment of your imagination, I suppose a Link will be made available??
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 9:33 AM
Wheels, Isn't it grand to have someone so devoted to keeping you informed? :)
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 9:41 AM
Yeah, I agree he created it out of his "excuse making for Obama" mind. Leftists are good at creating non truths.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 9:42 AM
Wheels, Isn't it grand to have someone so devoted to keeping you informed? :)
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 9:41 AM
Old John,
I am underwhelmed. And she would know what Common thinks..... how? Are they one and the same?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 9:45 AM
Started out defending that it was not a terrorist attack then defended that the president admitted it to be terrorism after defending the attack as video insult to Muslims inspired, then off to blame the Ambassador and put the murderers in good light by saying they took him to the hospital, somewhere in there blaming a general and....wow! no wonder Common is spinning his own spin. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 9:56 AM
Context clues need not be given by Common, his intentions are perfectly transparent. I just want to see him/her admit it's a fabrication.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 10:03 AM
-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 9:59 AM
I believe I get what you're saying... you think our government could be mixed up in yet another arms scandal gone sour??
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 10:08 AM
Believe Pres. Pinky read the book written by Richard Nixon on "Coverups 101"....he should be careful he might just end up like Nixon waving goodbye to Washington as he enters the plane.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 11:13 AM
-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 11:38 AM
BC,
Yes the demands for smaller government does seem to have a hollow ring to it. Anything coming from the true "right" is not going to stand in favor with the RINOs. The acronym "Rino" may in reality stand for "Right in name only".
Some days I wonder if there are any true conservatives left in politics.
Last night I got in the car on the return from a shopping expedition and the station that was tuned in had Hannity on and he was berating some Republican Politician about the lack of Leadership in the Republican Party and Speaker Boehner in particular.
This country is headed for the toilet in my opinion. We have no true leadership in Washington and none is on the horizon that can win election to a leadership position.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 1:23 PM
Michelle Obama vs. Congress | NR
John King, Margaret Talev and Jonathan Martin on the first lady's fight with Congress over school lunches.
-- Posted by Disease Turtle on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 11:56 AM
Who elected her to anything?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 1:24 PM
Maybe Michelle should have been elected instead of Barack.....
-- Posted by Disease Turtle on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 1:40 PM
My opinion...... Neither of the above.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 1:45 PM
And I seriously doubt this is what "promote the general welfare of" was meant to be about .....
-- Posted by Disease Turtle on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 5:49 PM
DT: Maybe the "promote the general welfare" was for Congress in order to line their pockets by being re-elected to their posh positions.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Tue, May 27, 2014, at 7:16 PM
Eric Shinseki is toast.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 10:20 AM
"On Wednesday, the Department of Veterans Affairs' inspector general confirmed "systemic" and widespread manipulation of data that understated VA health appointment waiting times, prompting both Democratic and Republican lawmakers to call for Shinseki to quit.
"In an interim report on an investigation at VA facilities in Phoenix, the inspector general confirmed that 1,700 veterans were being held on a secret waiting list that allowed Phoenix VA officials to report much shorter waiting times, data used in their salary and bonus award calculations.
"It said similar probes are under way at 42 VA locations across the United States."
-- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 10:23 AM
Kinda strange how Obama described what Shinseki was to back and do and saying he accepted his resignation at the same time.
Maybe he misread the teleprompter.
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 10:25 AM
"To report much shorter waiting times, data used in their salary and bonus award calculations."
I guess if you are protecting your $300,000 annual salary, a number that I heard last night.... I suppose it is OK to do what is necessary, even if a few people have to die in the process.
Somebody needs to go to prison over this one.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 10:31 AM
Maybe Hillary will take over and straighten it out. She could start out by firing the travel staff and get her people in there. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 10:33 AM
Pres. Pinky's opening statement about General Shinseki going to have people fired at some of the VA hospitals and had ask for Shinseki's resignation was right on....then the spin control started.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 10:39 AM
a secret waiting list that allowed Phoenix VA officials to report much shorter waiting times, data used in their salary and bonus award calculations. -- Posted by Shapley Hunter on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 10:23 AM
Surely an administration that manipulated unemployment rates right before the election - and the adjusted them after - wouldn't do something like this too would they?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 11:31 AM
I take no glee in Shinseki's departure. Probably a decent man who tried to fix a flawed system - government run health care where bureaucrats make decisions at the top of the chain, little accountability is expected or demanded and an endless well of taxpayer money.
This is much bigger than the Obama supporters would like to admit and it will grow. The saddest part is the failure to take care of these people. They hid these numbers to get bonuses.
Why do federal employees get bonuses anyway? Don't we have a huge deficit?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 4:33 PM
I take no glee in Shinseki's departure. Probably a decent man who tried to fix a flawed system - government run health care where bureaucrats make decisions at the top of the chain, little accountability is expected or demanded and an endless well of taxpayer money.
This is much bigger than the Obama supporters would like to admit and it will grow. The saddest part is the failure to take care of these people. They hid these numbers to get bonuses.
Why do federal employees get bonuses anyway? Don't we have a huge deficit?
-- Posted by not_sorry on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 4:33 PM
Semo, I agree. The thing that needs to be addressed is why veterans are waiting.
Not enough Doctors, not enough equipment, not enough staff or whatever. It has been mentioned that priorities of urgency are observed. I think that is the basis for triage, not effective and adequate care deserved.
Just think of it for a moment. The head of the VA is a political appointee. The hierarchy is over paid people of political favor. On the other end is the real caring people that are overworked with double shifts trying to make a living with dignity and honor to their profession.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't heard the constant clamor of something for nothing coming from veterans as is evident in other sections of our great society.
Time to allow veterans to seek medical care where they best choose and allow the market to determine the amount of medical services available.
Some guidelines are necessary to prevent overcharge and that could be worked out with some skin in the game, yeah even for veterans.
My rant, my opinion, and probably not that well thought out but I never was the sharpest knife in the drawer.
-- Posted by Old John on Fri, May 30, 2014, at 7:42 PM
Rick,
I always am a skeptical No. We are dealing with the government here and if it changes it will likely get worse.
All of the righteous indignation will die down in due time and Washington will give their collective sigh of relief and go back to sucking money from us to fatten their own bank accounts. I have heard some say the VA needs more money... really, do people think that will fix the problem, or allow for bigger paychecks and bonuses for the chosen few?
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, Jun 3, 2014, at 8:29 AM
-- Posted by BCStoned on Tue, Jun 3, 2014, at 11:11 PM
Criminal charges should be brought against those officers and those who white washed the affair, including the lying nurse, if all of this is proven.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 12:32 AM
How is the government going to reimburse the widow for her loss.... buy her a new husband? Throwing money at a situation is always the answer.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 9:52 AM
The government is all knowing and whatever they do, we have to live with... that is the new "MO" in this country.
If you go into a nursing home, check their operating procedures. I asked why siderails were not provided when their is danger of a patient rolling out of bed. The answer it is illegal to restrain anyone without doctor's orders to do so. The solution to a patient that can no longer even think for themselves is to put them in a bed that is almost like a mattress laying on the floor the legs are so short, so they will not hurt themselves as badly should they roll out of bed.
But the VA can call in security to restrain a man who is able to walk and decides he intends to leave. Restrain him to the point of beating him to death.
They need to close this travesty down entirely and let the government pay to have the veterans treated at private hospitals. It would eliminate the bureaucracy with the puffed up salaries and be cheaper for the taxpayer in the end. We owe these people better than they are getting and it will not be corrected without wholesale dismissals of people who look upon it as a place to collect a bloated check rather than to serve our veterans at a fair salary.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 10:38 AM
"...and be cheaper for the taxpayer in the end."
That's highly doubtful, so are you willing to raise tax rates so that veterans can get all their treatment at private hospitals?
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 2:55 PM
And now the republicans vote against funding for care for veterans.
It's easy to imagine them concluding, "We just want to rail against "lack of care" for vets, we didn't mean we'd actually pay for it."
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 5:09 PM
Wheels, "That's highly doubtful".
What where you thinking? Elimination of bureaucracy means raising taxes. Any good democrat knows that!
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 5:50 PM
What where you thinking? Elimination of bureaucracy means raising taxes. Any good democrat knows that!
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 5:50 PM
Old John,
As any good Leftist knows, raising taxes will fix everything. Probably, a word Common likes to use, raising taxes is a cure for hemorrhoids.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 6:02 PM
Rick: Wait until the next poll after this deserter/terrorist swap has settled into folks minds....his poll numbers might be in the teens.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 6:25 PM
George Bush would have salivated to have an approval rating of 43%. You know, the war criminal.
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 6:36 PM
Lefty,
Since school is out and you don't have any homework.... why don't you go outside and play and leave the conversation on The Threads to adults.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 6:51 PM
HWWT, Rick has sucked up to you so much he is as thin skinned as you. Chill out old timer your comments are getting more delusional by the day. George Bush would have salivated for a 43% aooroval rating. George Bush would have salivated for a 43% approval rating. You know the war criminal.
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 7:45 PM
and you salivate for Barack Obama. We get it.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 7:58 PM
-- Posted by left turn on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 7:45 PM
Left: Isn't it past your bedtime, say goodnight.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 8:43 PM
Rick: That's a good example of a low informed Pres. Pinky voter who still thinks that Bush II is still president, don't they know there can be only one official president at a time.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 9:06 PM
In my mind it's a proven fact that the last guy fired or quit gets blamed for everything gone wrong by the slackers.
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 9:14 PM
Rick, You know you just made Common's day by mentioning his hero Cruz? :)
-- Posted by Old John on Wed, Jun 4, 2014, at 9:23 PM
If the coal industries spent the same amount of time and money that they expend fighting environmental regulation, on finding new, better and cleaner ways to burn coal, they would be much further ahead.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Jun 5, 2014, at 8:04 AM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Thu, Jun 5, 2014, at 8:04 AM
common: The same could be said of the money spent in promoting Pinkycare.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Thu, Jun 5, 2014, at 1:52 PM
Very sad for the Vets, will there be any criminal charges bought up by the DOJ or will they whitewash another "silly" scandal.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Mon, Jun 9, 2014, at 7:11 PM
That would be witch hunt according to the left.
-- Posted by We Regret To Inform U on Mon, Jun 9, 2014, at 8:13 PM
"...will there be any criminal charges bought up ..."
In cases where records were intentionally falsified, individuals should be fired. If records were distorted to "earn" bonuses, criminal charges should be brought.
Then Congress needs to consider funding levels appropriate to the problem. If they won't provide the resources then the should accept responsibility also.
Why would you consider this a "witch hunt?"
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Mon, Jun 9, 2014, at 9:46 PM
So if the the proper people don't do right, it is the do nothing party of no in congress that is to blame for not throwing more money at it?
I guess it's all the Republican's fault that the Democrats continue to be crooks. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Mon, Jun 9, 2014, at 9:53 PM
"Then Congress needs to consider funding levels appropriate to the problem. If they won't provide the resources then the should accept responsibility also."
Common,
That is your fix for everything, throw some money at it. Actually, if I heard correctly, funding has been increased considerably since Obama came to office. Money is not the problem, government is the problem. They have no motivation to fix problems.
I predict nothing of a significant nature will be done to fix the VA problem for the balance of this administration, and possibly the next The new prisoner swap scandal has taken the VA scandal off the front burner and the front pages. The guilty can breathe a sigh of relief.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Mon, Jun 9, 2014, at 9:54 PM
Money is not the problem, it's the managing of the money that is the problem.
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 9:11 AM
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
When I was young and looking for my first job during the days of Selective Service (The Draft), one of the first questions asked on a job interview was..... have you completed your military service yet.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 9:59 AM
Wheels: Didn't know they had the Draft back during the Revolutionary War.☺☺☺
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 10:47 AM
Semo471
Careful there I only been married 7 1/2 years longer than you.
-- Posted by Have Wheels Will Travel - ΑΩ on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 10:56 AM
"...fix for everything, throw some money at it."
That's very simply not true. In this particular instance Congress has said that they would "take care of veterans."
From the Washington Post...
"A nationwide audit by the Department of Veteran Affairs found that 57,000 veterans have been waiting more than 90 days for an appointment and that an additional 64,000 requested medical care but never made it onto VA waiting lists.
"The near-term measures, however, are not likely to fix deeper problems that plague a VA health-care system that has struggled to accommodate more than 2 million new patients over the past five years."
In the past five years the VA health care budget, which has increased from about $47 billion to about $57 billion, has not kept up with the growth in demand for services.
What you either don't know, weren't aware of, or chose to disregard is that the VA has always had a system of treatment priorities (8 category groups based on characteristics such as combat service, disabilities, length and place of service, ability to pay, etc.) with over 50% disabled vets being first, and non-combat minor problems being last.
Many of the 8 million plus VA enrollees have other sources of insurance (such as Medicare and Tricare in my own case) or are on Medicaid or have employer paid insurance. All don't use the VA.
There are in fact more users now, and if Congress wants the VA to treat all eligible veterans at VA facilities, or private facilities they will have to either come up with more resources, or conclude that the waiting lists are a necessary feature of the system as designed.
This is not to say that manipulating lists and fabricating "cooked books" is in any manner excusable. Those guilty of that should be fired and/or prosecuted for fraud.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 12:21 PM
"The near-term measures, however, are not likely to fix deeper problems that plague a VA health-care system that has struggled to accommodate more than 2 million new patients over the past five years."-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 12:21 PM
You told us the number of people being insured and using services WOULD NOT affect the quality of care/service. YOU SAID 30 million new insured would be "better".
Now you say a measly 2 million new patients is killing the VA health care?
You swing whatever direction it benefits your president. That's why your credibility isn't good. It's all about Obama for you. Wake up.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 12:24 PM
"What you either don't know, weren't aware of, or chose to disregard ..."
...applies to very many of your comments.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 12:40 PM
Nice deflection common. It's a tactic when you get caught with your own word vomit. You push Obamacare and make false promises of "better quality health care" and then make excuses when the federal government can't handle the VA.
Your liberal ideology and big-government approach is a proven failure. You just keep pimping it and ignoring the obvious truth. You choose to disregard the calamity your ideology is causing.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 12:56 PM
I am continually amazed at your inability to understand issues. Possibly after the completion of President Obama's second term you may be able to consider things with a greater degree of prudence and balanced judgment. But if you are also sexist, hopefully not though, the next President could elicit equal animosity and rage.
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 1:07 PM
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 1:07 PM
common: Why, is Condoleezza Rice running in 2016?
-- Posted by Truth Slinger on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 1:13 PM
But if you are also sexist, hopefully not though, the next President could elicit equal animosity and rage. -- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 1:07 PM
Wow. We can see your strategy shifting. You're one of the biggest racists and race baiters on here.
Looks like you've already started your sexist gender-baiting for Hill and Bill. It's all you have common.
It's so stupid to hear this approach. It's actually comical! Based on your weak attack you are sexist because you didn't vote for John McCain - whose running partner was Sarah Palin.
See how immature you are and why you're comments are so dismissed? It's simply partisan hack - that's all.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 1:18 PM
"...why [your] comments are so dismissed..."
Fortunately I consider the source...
-- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 2:17 PM
Fortunately I consider the source... -- Posted by commonsensematters on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 2:17 PM
Considering Obama as your source doesn't help you any. Sorry to deflate your confidence.
-- Posted by not_sorry on Tue, Jun 10, 2014, at 2:53 PM
Rick, That article makes me think the problem is not how much less is offered but more how much more the schools are charging.
-- Posted by Old John on Sat, Jun 28, 2014, at 7:25 PM
If government offered vouchers for a free hamburger per day for everyone, would the hamburgers cost the amount of the voucher and the pickles and mustard cost extra? Maybe the hamburgers at the cost of the vouchers would be merely an appetizer for the meal society deems appropriate. :)
-- Posted by Old John on Sun, Jun 29, 2014, at 10:41 AM
Menu
Is this a scandal,a bump in the road,willful lawbreaking or just plain old government incompetence? Apparently warning signs were surfacing around 2005 during Bush's last term. During the bush/obama transition period the new administration was alerted to the problems. Obama made several speeches during his 2007 campaign,while president elect and after inauguration talking about the very issues coming to light then and continuing now. I understand he authorized about a $30 billion budget increase for the VA. Typical government response,throw some money at it. Lists of people to blame and really no defense for any of them. Everyone is talking outrage and they are mad as hell yet not one person has lost their job except for one guy whose retirement was moved up a couple of months. Samo-samo.
I know there are several vets posting here and I'd like to hear their opinions.I'm not one if them. I won only one lottery in my life and it was the first draft lottery during the Vietnam War. Number 330 will always have a special meaning. Yes,kids,there used to be a draft when old men that thought war was a good thing couldn't convince young men that visiting strange lands,meeting interesting people then killing them was a patriotic duty.
If the VA,a government run single payer health program can't take care of less than 10% of our citizens what makes anyone think another bloated government run healthcare system can take care of 100%?
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